tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9036855448795934379.post2640465448356106238..comments2019-06-02T22:05:53.027+01:00Comments on GRAVISSIMUM EDUCATIONIS: Custom should ruleUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9036855448795934379.post-59511746422940679082007-12-31T08:21:00.000+00:002007-12-31T08:21:00.000+00:00I think I broadly agree with you, but juxta modum....I think I broadly agree with you, but juxta modum. <BR/>On 7.7.7., I took (early) advantage of the Motu Proprio to celebrate a baptism in the traditional rite, and did so in the vernacular version in the Ritual you allude to. There were special reasons; the child's mother had committed suicide a short time before, and the traditional rite actually presumes that the mother is not present, but still recovering from the birth. I think there can be good pastoral reasons to use the vernacular with the trad. rites, among which may well be accustoming people to those traditional rites. As an interim measure, I would welcome the chance to even offer the Extraordinary Mass partly in the vernacular, to accustom people to it, slowly making the change to Latin as their understanding grew.<BR/>On another point; it was actually customary in some countries to recite the rosary in Latin. Never, however, in England.<BR/>p.s. I, too was at St Andrews, in the early 1980s.Fr Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11453464347435181524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9036855448795934379.post-84488340339778336652007-12-26T21:41:00.000+00:002007-12-26T21:41:00.000+00:00Merry Christmas to you! I'm using my tim off from ...Merry Christmas to you! <BR/><BR/>I'm using my tim off from work to catch up with things, blogs included. Very good point in this post! Many people these days pick up books and assume that that's the way things were. In the same way that we Catholics do not take a 'sola scriptura' approach to our religion, we should not take a 'sola libro' approach to liturgics. Asking people who not only remember, but are well-versed enough to know what they are talking about, is also important. I'm very thankful that I've had some good teachers regarding the liturgy.M.J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14638202171402952084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9036855448795934379.post-15666211519404084572007-12-17T11:02:00.000+00:002007-12-17T11:02:00.000+00:00"Give us back exactly what was done just before th..."Give us back exactly what was done just before the traditional liturgy was done away with !" -- Yea, give us back those precious weeks before the French revolution and la Terreur...<BR/><BR/>Such a naive idea... The 50s as a kind of New Apostolical Norma... The 50s and 60s were times of liturgical decay. This is the very reason why liturgical tradition was done away with in the West. Of course, it did not happen overnight ; thus, the many reforms of the 50s and 60s were permeated with principles alien to tradtional liturgy, be it Western or Eastern.<BR/><BR/>If you ever were to get what you want, i.e. the 60s back, and for instance the dialogue Mass imposed überalles, that horrid modern invention, you´d have a new liturgical upheaval a few decades later. It´s that simple. For the same principles always give the same results. And the traditional liturgy is not conciliable with the principles of the 50s and 60s. Father Bryan Houghton wrote very profoundly on the subject of what was wrong with the liturgy in the years preceding the last coucil. I suggest you read it : "Priest Rejected".<BR/><BR/>Thanks Heaven dom Guéranger was what you´d call a purist and antiquarianist ! Athough i´d say you´re the purist -- of quite a different brand, though.<BR/><BR/>I almost forgot : I was married entirely in Latin. And my three children were christianed entirely in Latin. The ordinary layman does not necessarily want what you want. <BR/><BR/>Jon Kjölstad, SwedenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9036855448795934379.post-24443992825723611552007-12-05T08:34:00.000+00:002007-12-05T08:34:00.000+00:00JamieI thought I'd replied to this but obviously n...Jamie<BR/><BR/>I thought I'd replied to this but obviously not!<BR/><BR/>I agree with you. Popular, non-liturgical devotions like the rosary should be in the vernacular.<BR/><BR/>The only exception is where there is an international group (who are used to Latin) where Latin would be the best common language of prayer.<BR/><BR/>Do these people think that Latin is always the best and the vernacular is always a concession to liberalism?! Heavens.<BR/><BR/>To think so is to insult popular piety, which is entirely separate from the liturgy. For example, I'm all for guitars in popular piety; but not exactly a fan of guitars in Church and in the liturgy. <BR/><BR/>These 'traditionalists' are becoming increasingly untraditional.The Holy Officehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05780034421875468593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9036855448795934379.post-30435494456088618382007-12-03T18:39:00.000+00:002007-12-03T18:39:00.000+00:00I believe that where it is beneficial to a congreg...I believe that where it is beneficial to a congregation, then dialogue masses can be allowed <I>if that was the custom for that country</I> e.g. France and Germany. I do not believe in importing customs from other European countries into here, for the sake of it.<BR/><BR/>I was godfather to a daughter of a <A HREF="http://lacrimarum-valle.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">well-known blogger</A> this year at the Birmingham Oratory. The baptism was in the old rite but with vernacular concessions, where this was duly allowed by the Archbishop of Birmingham in the late 1950s.Aduliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00534730218402742905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9036855448795934379.post-28430220779228335122007-12-03T10:04:00.000+00:002007-12-03T10:04:00.000+00:00Gravissimum Educationis- where sane traditionalism...<I>Gravissimum Educationis- where sane traditionalism rules!</I><BR/><BR/>Great stuff! Question- what about the rosary? Someone asked me about praying it in Latin (in a group) the other day and I said that it struck me as rather untraditional and a little OTT. Am I wrong?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9036855448795934379.post-65073294497816212922007-12-02T23:34:00.000+00:002007-12-02T23:34:00.000+00:00Hi Gravi,(Couldn't see your real name displayed)I ...Hi Gravi,(Couldn't see your real name displayed)<BR/><BR/>I came across your blog while out blogwandering. I love the pretty pictures and illustrations. However, all the entries seem to focus on religious issues, ie, Communion on the tongue or hand, the right way to light candles or smell tests for incence.<BR/>I wonder what are your views away from the pedantic? What about life outside legalism?<BR/>I mean, are you following Jesus' Great Commission? (Mark 16: 15-18)Is your parish having to install more seats to accommodate converts? Are you raising the dead, healing the sick and preaching the Good News to the masses?<BR/>Or are you lost in the love of legalism? <BR/><BR/>Blessings<BR/><BR/>JamesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9036855448795934379.post-59516593069393923092007-12-02T23:00:00.000+00:002007-12-02T23:00:00.000+00:00Sound stuff!I have added you to blogroll, unless y...Sound stuff!<BR/>I have added you to blogroll, unless you object.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.com